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Azure DevOps Podcast

Message from Jeffrey Palermo: Howdy.  Welcome to my podcast.  I hope it helps you ship software more quickly and more reliably. Through the topics and guests, I hope your life is made easier. Let me know what topics would be helpful for you.

Podcast sponsor: Clear Measure We are a software architecture company that empowers our client's development teams to be self-sufficient: moving fast, delivering quality, and running their systems with confidence.

Sep 7, 2020

In today’s episode, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by a really exciting guest; Robert C Martin, better known as Uncle Bob Martin!


If you don’t already know Bob, he is a software engineer, instructor, and best-selling author. He is most recognized for developing numerous software design principles and for being a founder of the incredibly influential Agile Manifesto. Bob is the author of a number of Clean Code related books including his latest, Clean Agile: Back to Basics, where he reintroduces Agile values and principles for a new generation of programmers and nonprogrammers alike. In the past, Bob was also the editor-in-chief of C++ Report magazine and served as the first chairman of the Agile Alliance.


In this episode, Jeffrey and Bob talk all things Agile and Extreme Programming (XP). Bob shares his insights on what would be on his shortlist if he was building an Agile team today; shares key takeaways from his book, Clean Agile: Back to Basics; and speaks about what XP looks like in 2020. He also touches on clean architecture, clean code, his predictions for the future of the software industry, and offers some timely tips for young developers!


Topics of Discussion:

[:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes.

[:46] About The Azure DevOps Podcast and Jeffrey’s offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:42] About today’s episode with Bob Martin.

[2:10] Jeffrey welcomes Bob to the podcast.

[2:20] Bob shares some background about who he is as well as the proudest moment in his career.

[4:09] Why did Bob decide to write Clean Agile: Back to Basics?

[5:28] If someone was building an Agile team today, what would be on Bob’s shortlist of recommendations?

[7:38] What does Extreme Programming (XP) look like in 2020? What are the concrete practices?

[9:32] What does Bob see as the current best standard for a programmer in this COVID world?

[12:31] Bob defines the practice of continuous integration.

[14:58] Is Bob a fan of feature branches?

[15:29] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure.

[16:00] Bob’s journey with getting started with clean architecture.

[19:23] Is there a way to do clean architecture with the modern tooling available? Or are there things available to attempt to get closer to it?

[21:32] Bob shares the origin of literate programming.

[23:11] The modern struggle with tooling.

[25:15] Bob talks ‘DLL Hell’.

[26:00] Bob shares why it is so incredibly important to keep clean code; code that is free from dependencies. He also explains how to get to that point and offers some advice to young programmers.

[31:55] Bob shares his predictions on the future of the software industry.

[37:13] Jeffrey thanks Bob for joining the podcast!


Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter Follow to stay informed about future events!

The Azure DevOps Podcast’s Twitter: @AzureDevOpsShow

Robert C. Martin

Clean Agile: Back to Basics, by Robert C. Martin

Robert C.Martin’s Amazon Book Page

@UncleBobMartin (Bob Martin’s Twitter)

Clean Coders

Extreme Programming Explained, by Kent Beck

Clean Architecture: A Craftsman's Guide to Software Structure and Design, by Robert C. Martin

DLL Hell


Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.