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Azure DevOps Podcast

Message from Jeffrey Palermo: Howdy.  Welcome to my podcast.  I hope it helps you ship software more quickly and more reliably. Through the topics and guests, I hope your life is made easier. Let me know what topics would be helpful for you.

Podcast sponsor: Clear Measure We are a software architecture company that empowers our client's development teams to be self-sufficient: moving fast, delivering quality, and running their systems with confidence.

Mar 16, 2020

As listeners already know, The Azure DevOps Podcast is for developers shipping software with Microsoft technologies and in today’s episode, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by someone who makes said technology!


Ryan Demopoulos is a Program Manager Lead working on the Windows developer platform, specifically on the GUI stack. If you use buttons and textboxes, Ryan helps make that happen. He's been at Microsoft for 13 years and has been in the UX space the whole time.


In this episode, Jeffrey and Ryan discuss WinUI in-depth. Ryan explains what it is, the changes and developments he has seen (and been a part of) over the course of his career, where he sees it heading in 10 years time, details of the release roadmap, cross-platform development, what the team is currently working on — and a whole lot more!


Topics of Discussion:

[:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes.

[:47] About Jeffrey’s upcoming .NET DevOps Bootcamp in Austin, Texas on April 30th and his free 30-point DevOps inspection.

[1:04] About today’s episode and guest!

[1:44] Jeffrey welcomes Ryan to the show.

[4:52] Ryan speaks about some of the changes he’s seen with WinUI over the course of his career as well as what he has personally worked on.

[8:07] What is WinUI?

[12:34] Which apps are you targetting with WinUI? And which ones are you not?

[16:21] Ryan gives an update on the Windows development landscape and shares whether or not it’s on a growth trend.

[19:20] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure.

[19:43] Jeffrey gives some quick announcements.

[22:09] Where does Ryan see WinUI in 10 years? And what are some general predictions for the future of it, going forward?

[25:33] Ryan shares some details of the release roadmap of WinUI.

[29:05] Will WinUI be available for more than just the Windows platform in the future?

[31:01] Jeffrey tosses a scenario Ryan’s way and asks whether they will be testing such a scenario in the future development of WinUI.

[32:32] If, in the future, WinUI is compatible with WebAssembly, could it be possible that a WPF application could be accessible via a URL?

[35:22] The drawbacks of the web.

[36:00] Jeffrey gives his feedback on Ryan’s vision for the future of WinUI.

[36:27] What the WinUI team is currently focused on.

[37:42] Ryan recommends resources for listeners if they want to learn more.

[39:35] Jeffrey thanks Ryan for joining the podcast!


Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook! — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter Follow to stay informed about future events! — Email Jeffrey for a free 30-point DevOps inspection (regularly priced at $5000!) — Spaces are limited!

Ryan’s Twitter: @RyanDemopoulos


Microsoft Silverlight

XAML Islands

Microsoft Build


UWP Discord Server


Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.